tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381129527146258002.post8258393815691950118..comments2024-03-28T04:51:40.042-07:00Comments on Agile Otter Blog: Career Pathing?Agileotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10773578598860454277noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381129527146258002.post-5275217341724918872010-03-02T08:43:53.897-08:002010-03-02T08:43:53.897-08:00Tim
thank you for the clarification, always hard ...Tim<br /><br />thank you for the clarification, always hard to tell if somebody's making fun of your being sincere over the web :-)<br /><br />I don't think that we should be separating anybody from anybody else especially the junior beans from the seniors, but having some kind of career ladder at least tags people according to their Senior,and gives upper management some idea of what kind of capability they have in their ranks.<br /><br />Of course this is just a very general view, and the key point is that any kind of career ladder needs to be applied <b>lightly</b>, for it to be effective...<br /><br />A career path modeled after the way craftsman are promoted over time has been suggested by uncle Bob and others, and might not be such a bad thing...Jeff Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17502868241692630528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381129527146258002.post-41948126740797696222010-03-02T06:20:41.237-08:002010-03-02T06:20:41.237-08:00Career Path: A planned, logical progression of jo...Career Path: A planned, logical progression of jobs within one or more professions throughout working life. A career path can be planned with greater assurance in market conditions of stability and little change. “In order to guarantee future innovations and continual success, forward-looking organizations invest in identifying and preparing employees to be tomorrow's leaders, according to a recent report from research and consulting firm Best Practices, LLC. World-class companies maximize human capital and ensure goal achievement by incorporating leadership training into performance development initiatives.” <br /><br />Taken from Business Publications, June, 2003.Agileotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773578598860454277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381129527146258002.post-69538049631524585392010-03-01T17:59:57.259-08:002010-03-01T17:59:57.259-08:00Sorry for the bunny trail. I confess that I have n...Sorry for the bunny trail. I confess that I have no idea what "Career Pathing" actually means.<br /><br />I guess I should look it up?Walter Moorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381129527146258002.post-1229358722863453222010-03-01T11:13:19.286-08:002010-03-01T11:13:19.286-08:00Note that I'm not against having senior people...Note that I'm not against having senior people on the team... I think it's absolutely valuable to have people who know what they're doing in a wider context. Having a career path or not having a career path has no bearing on the wisdom of having capable teams. <br /><br />Maybe I don't really appreciate the need to separate the fossils from the green beans, or why a career path is an effective way to do that.Agileotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773578598860454277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381129527146258002.post-549365049743572342010-03-01T11:10:10.951-08:002010-03-01T11:10:10.951-08:00Jeff: I failed to reread *mine* several times. :-)...Jeff: I failed to reread *mine* several times. :-) <br /><br />First paragraph ill-advised "yays" were to say that I'm sincerely, legitimately happy for you and your situation. No sarcasm is intended whatsoever. It may be a juvenile expression of joy, but no ill-will intended. It sounds like a good place to be.Agileotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773578598860454277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381129527146258002.post-56441607989261843632010-03-01T08:37:15.481-08:002010-03-01T08:37:15.481-08:00Tim,
I'm not sure if you have read my post se...Tim,<br /><br />I'm not sure if you have read my post several times if the only response you can offer is cheerleading like chants. This is coming off as a little obnoxious and juvenile, not sure if this is your intent if it isn't then I apologize.<br /><br />If you can't have the concept of a career path for programmers, than what are you offering as an alternative? how else is an organization with hundreds or thousands of employees going to handle pay or structure? You seem to be saying that the best system is no system.I think that the idea that there are only two kinds of approaches to handling a programmer's career, no career path in on the one hand, and an overly bureaucratic and abused career pathing system on the other seems naïve.<br /><br />There are plenty of options and organizational models that are more suitable to knowledge workers then the typical "top-down imposed by manager" one. Product driven, client driven, technology driven are all possibilities where you can apply the concepts of different levels and seniority. Again you need to apply these concepts lightly, and with good leadership.Jeff Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17502868241692630528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381129527146258002.post-72409775621959415532010-03-01T06:32:27.440-08:002010-03-01T06:32:27.440-08:00Jeff: After repeated readings I don't see anyt...Jeff: After repeated readings I don't see anything happening that would not happen without career pathing other than one problem. I know you like your company (yay!) and your position (double yay!) but I don't know that pathing is what made it so, or makes sense.<br /><br />Note that I suggested that it's dead for technical people mostly, intending that to mean programmers, where the conditions I listed apply. In other areas of work, it may be perfectly reasonable.<br /><br />Wally: retirement plans haven't been very good, with companies and business closing like mad. A lot of younger people either have their own retirement, or keep rolling it from employer to employer, or have nothing at all.<br /><br />Agreed, there is something reassuring in the thought that an employer might want to keep you around for 10 or 20 years. Sadly, it is quite uncommon. Even people my age are swapping jobs every few years.Agileotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773578598860454277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381129527146258002.post-61140952952270050772010-02-28T13:18:39.432-08:002010-02-28T13:18:39.432-08:00These people who only work at any given job for 3 ...These people who only work at any given job for 3 years... are they generally working for companies without retirement plans or 401K's? It takes 5 or 6 years, depending upon the method the employer chooses, to become vested in a retirement plan or 401K, and if you leave before you are vested the company matching evaporates. <br /><br />How do these people plan to survive when they get to old to work? Social Security is already bankrupt. It actually paid out more in benefits in 2009 than it took in in taxes. And the "trust fund" contains only Treasury bills, which are quickly becoming worthless.<br /><br />It has long been the case that engineers and programmers end up trapped in their profession. They quickly reach the top of the pay scale for their classification, and then cant get a real raise without changing employers or moving into a management role. (Which is rarely an option.)<br /><br />I guess that I just wouldn't be offended by an employer showing an interest in my carrier path. (Deeply suspicious perhaps, given the events that have transpired in my carrier in the past 10 years, but not offended.)<br /><br />Have a wonderful day!Walter Moorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381129527146258002.post-32679150790710608372010-02-27T11:25:45.306-08:002010-02-27T11:25:45.306-08:00Tim,
I agree with many of your individual points...Tim, <br /><br />I agree with many of your individual points without agreeing with your conclusion. I agree that it is easy to see the leaders and doers in a team, and that the real contributors shine often in contradiction to the titles of the people in play. But I've also seen teams go into anarchy without the presence of a senior and appointed leader who has the title. Pulling rank is really distasteful, but sometimes I think it has to be done.<br /><br />I identify more with the lean philosophy of an active leader who is leading because he has real senior experience and gets his hands dirty, but he is still leading, mostly by carrot but sometimes by stick. This as opposed to the scrum notion that the whole team is equally accountable and has an equal say in decisions.<br /><br />I also think career paths are ok if they are applied lightly, and are not overly restrictive. As an example at Deloitte we have two paths one for consultants and one for specialists. <br /><br />Specialists tend to be better propeler-heads than the consultants, but otherwise the responsibility differences are small. More junior practicioners spend more time honing their skills and gaining various competencies, these range from technical, to advisory, to other things we do for our clients. As practicioners get more senior they spend more time mentoring, leading, and managing. Finally at the top of the pyramid resources are expected to help operate the business, make sales, manage accounts etc.<br /><br />Thebig point here is resources at all levels can do all things, it's a matter of emphasis over strict rules, if someone can step up to doing something, they are given the opportunity to do so. Likewise even senior leadership is called on to do "real" work depending on client needs. (as a senior resource, I ended up coding in .net for about 4 months last year, loved it)<br /><br />larger organizations need some mechanism to separate thethe junior beans from the fossils (that's me), and a couple of ways to identify competency, yet I hear all about how career paths are dead. That's not true in banks, manufacturing, public sector, insurance, energy, so where actually are they dead.<br /><br />I think the big probem is that technical resources aren't given a path that rewards them for improving their skills in the technical realm. Current models push people to become managers or architects, which is a shame because Imho it takes a lifetime to get really good at development.Jeff Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17502868241692630528noreply@blogger.com